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Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #818016]	Mon, 13 February 2023 13:56

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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Quote:

Four Moose Jaw Warriors players, including one Edmonton Oilers draft pick, have been suspended indefinitely as they're investigated for potential violations of team rules and the Western Hockey League's Standard of Conduct policies.

The WHL made the announcement in a news release on Saturday prior to the Warriors game against the Regina Pats in Regina.

The four players involved — defenceman Marek Howell, 16; forward Lynden Lakovic, 16; defenceman Max Wanner, 19; and goalie Connor Ungar, 21 — were not in the lineup for Saturday night's game.

The release did not provide details about which policies or rules had allegedly been violated by the players.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/moose-jaw-warrio rs-suspended-1.6745806

Haven't been able to find many details about what happened. .

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #818021 is a reply to message #818016 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 15:54

PlusOne
Messages: 1561
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 14:56

Quote:

Four Moose Jaw Warriors players, including one Edmonton Oilers draft pick, have been suspended indefinitely as they're investigated for potential violations of team rules and the Western Hockey League's Standard of Conduct policies.

The WHL made the announcement in a news release on Saturday prior to the Warriors game against the Regina Pats in Regina.

The four players involved — defenceman Marek Howell, 16; forward Lynden Lakovic, 16; defenceman Max Wanner, 19; and goalie Connor Ungar, 21 — were not in the lineup for Saturday night's game.

The release did not provide details about which policies or rules had allegedly been violated by the players.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/moose-jaw-warrio rs-suspended-1.6745806

Haven't been able to find many details about what happened. .

I wont post the rumors here but if the stories going around these parts are true this one could get uglier before it goes away.
If anything concrete comes out I will let the crew know!

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #818027 is a reply to message #818021 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:25

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:54

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 14:56

Quote:

Four Moose Jaw Warriors players, including one Edmonton Oilers draft pick, have been suspended indefinitely as they're investigated for potential violations of team rules and the Western Hockey League's Standard of Conduct policies.

The WHL made the announcement in a news release on Saturday prior to the Warriors game against the Regina Pats in Regina.

The four players involved — defenceman Marek Howell, 16; forward Lynden Lakovic, 16; defenceman Max Wanner, 19; and goalie Connor Ungar, 21 — were not in the lineup for Saturday night's game.

The release did not provide details about which policies or rules had allegedly been violated by the players.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/moose-jaw-warrio rs-suspended-1.6745806

Haven't been able to find many details about what happened. .

I wont post the rumors here but if the stories going around these parts are true this one could get uglier before it goes away.
If anything concrete comes out I will let the crew know!

Eek. Does not sound good.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #818031 is a reply to message #818021 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:34

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:54

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 14:56

Quote:

Four Moose Jaw Warriors players, including one Edmonton Oilers draft pick, have been suspended indefinitely as they're investigated for potential violations of team rules and the Western Hockey League's Standard of Conduct policies.

The WHL made the announcement in a news release on Saturday prior to the Warriors game against the Regina Pats in Regina.

The four players involved — defenceman Marek Howell, 16; forward Lynden Lakovic, 16; defenceman Max Wanner, 19; and goalie Connor Ungar, 21 — were not in the lineup for Saturday night's game.

The release did not provide details about which policies or rules had allegedly been violated by the players.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/moose-jaw-warrio rs-suspended-1.6745806

Haven't been able to find many details about what happened. .

I wont post the rumors here but if the stories going around these parts are true this one could get uglier before it goes away.
If anything concrete comes out I will let the crew know!

I've heard some things too which are indeed not good. Guess we wait until the police report comes out.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #818043 is a reply to message #818016 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 11:10

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

The police have said they are "aware of a situation" involving the four players. A very odd comment, but suggests a level of seriousness here.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819230 is a reply to message #818043 ]	Wed, 08 March 2023 20:57

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6772387

Quote:

Details are still scarce surrounding what led to the indefinite suspension of four Moose Jaw Warriors hockey players last month, one of whom was an Edmonton Oilers draft pick, but the Edmonton Police Service (EPS) has confirmed that it believes the incident was not criminal in nature.

"As such, we have no further comment," stated Scott Pattison, EPS media relations advisor, in an email.

Good news considering I was hearing everything from shop lifting to gang rape from some friends in Moose Jaw. Amazing how fast rumors spread.Hope he's back on the ice soon.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819240 is a reply to message #819230 ]	Thu, 09 March 2023 09:09

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 08 March 2023 20:57

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6772387

Quote:

Details are still scarce surrounding what led to the indefinite suspension of four Moose Jaw Warriors hockey players last month, one of whom was an Edmonton Oilers draft pick, but the Edmonton Police Service (EPS) has confirmed that it believes the incident was not criminal in nature.

"As such, we have no further comment," stated Scott Pattison, EPS media relations advisor, in an email.

Good news considering I was hearing everything from shop lifting to gang rape from some friends in Moose Jaw. Amazing how fast rumors spread.Hope he's back on the ice soon.

What would the Edmonton police service have to do with this? Was this incident in Edmonton?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819245 is a reply to message #819240 ]	Thu, 09 March 2023 14:02

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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Adam wrote on Thu, 09 March 2023 09:09

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 08 March 2023 20:57

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6772387

Quote:

Details are still scarce surrounding what led to the indefinite suspension of four Moose Jaw Warriors hockey players last month, one of whom was an Edmonton Oilers draft pick, but the Edmonton Police Service (EPS) has confirmed that it believes the incident was not criminal in nature.

"As such, we have no further comment," stated Scott Pattison, EPS media relations advisor, in an email.

Good news considering I was hearing everything from shop lifting to gang rape from some friends in Moose Jaw. Amazing how fast rumors spread.Hope he's back on the ice soon.

What would the Edmonton police service have to do with this? Was this incident in Edmonton?

Don't know but I'm guessing if they put this out to a reporter it must be true. Otherwise they wouldn't comment. Is kind of strange.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819248 is a reply to message #819245 ]	Thu, 09 March 2023 15:49

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Thu, 09 March 2023 14:02

Adam wrote on Thu, 09 March 2023 09:09

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 08 March 2023 20:57

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6772387

Quote:

Details are still scarce surrounding what led to the indefinite suspension of four Moose Jaw Warriors hockey players last month, one of whom was an Edmonton Oilers draft pick, but the Edmonton Police Service (EPS) has confirmed that it believes the incident was not criminal in nature.

"As such, we have no further comment," stated Scott Pattison, EPS media relations advisor, in an email.

Good news considering I was hearing everything from shop lifting to gang rape from some friends in Moose Jaw. Amazing how fast rumors spread.Hope he's back on the ice soon.

What would the Edmonton police service have to do with this? Was this incident in Edmonton?

Don't know but I'm guessing if they put this out to a reporter it must be true. Otherwise they wouldn't comment. Is kind of strange.

It is strange. They played in Edmonton on the 25th of January following a game on the 23rd in Calgary. They then were off until the 28th in Winnipeg, so I suspect that the incident happened somewhere between Jan 24-26.

The article suggests that they didn't play again after Edmonton, but that isn't so. They actually stayed in the lineup until a home game against Calgary on Feb 5th. A week later the team announced the suspension. The police at the time suggested that they were "aware" of the situation, which suggests a level of seriousness to whatever they're alleged to have done. The team doesn't seem too much in doubt that they did it too.

I would suspect that this announcement, another month later, suggests that whoever the wronged party was has decided they don't want to press charges, and without their cooperation, the police do not have a strong case where they can expect a conviction.

Whatever it is is still likely very serious though. Moose Jaw is in a playoff race, and they have sidelined their top goalie and three other roster players who'd been in most games this year up to that point. The announcement from the police has so far not been accompanied by an announcement from the team that they're going to reinstate the players. To me, the only reason I can see for that is if the team feels there's a severe reputational risk to them if the players are reinstated and the story subsequently comes out. It will not surprise me if these players are all moved on from Moose Jaw this summer.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819334 is a reply to message #819230 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 09:40

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 08 March 2023 20:57

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6772387

Quote:

Details are still scarce surrounding what led to the indefinite suspension of four Moose Jaw Warriors hockey players last month, one of whom was an Edmonton Oilers draft pick, but the Edmonton Police Service (EPS) has confirmed that it believes the incident was not criminal in nature.

"As such, we have no further comment," stated Scott Pattison, EPS media relations advisor, in an email.

Good news considering I was hearing everything from shop lifting to gang rape from some friends in Moose Jaw. Amazing how fast rumors spread.Hope he's back on the ice soon.

Imagine being a person who is a horrible enough person 5o partake in a gang rape....then imagine a person who would *still* be a part of that with everything in recent Hockey Canada news. I hope that is not the case here.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819335 is a reply to message #819334 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 10:37

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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K.McC#24 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 09:40

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 08 March 2023 20:57

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6772387

Quote:

Details are still scarce surrounding what led to the indefinite suspension of four Moose Jaw Warriors hockey players last month, one of whom was an Edmonton Oilers draft pick, but the Edmonton Police Service (EPS) has confirmed that it believes the incident was not criminal in nature.

"As such, we have no further comment," stated Scott Pattison, EPS media relations advisor, in an email.

Good news considering I was hearing everything from shop lifting to gang rape from some friends in Moose Jaw. Amazing how fast rumors spread.Hope he's back on the ice soon.

Imagine being a person who is a horrible enough person 5o partake in a gang rape....then imagine a person who would *still* be a part of that with everything in recent Hockey Canada news. I hope that is not the case here.

Im guessing its not. Likely a case of young men acting like idiots. If the incident is not criminal in nature the best thing is probably just to give them a good tongue lashing ,reinstate them and let the story die.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819345 is a reply to message #819335 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 11:45

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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I am not a lawyer so hopefully someone knows the answer but is there a difference in how the police would call an incident if someone decided not to press charges vs some kids being idiots and doing something but didn't break the law?

When they say it wasn't criminal in nature, that to me means they were being immature teens and doing stupid things, probably broke a few WHL code of conduct rules but what they did isn't something you get charged for. But I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819357 is a reply to message #819345 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 15:35

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 11:45

I am not a lawyer so hopefully someone knows the answer but is there a difference in how the police would call an incident if someone decided not to press charges vs some kids being idiots and doing something but didn't break the law?

When they say it wasn't criminal in nature, that to me means they were being immature teens and doing stupid things, probably broke a few WHL code of conduct rules but what they did isn't something you get charged for. But I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.

It is more serious than that. Here's the latest:

https://whl.ca/article/whl-announces-sanctions-for-moose-jaw -warriors

Quote:

Based on the findings of the investigation, the WHL has issued the following sanctions:

All four Moose Jaw Warriors players involved in the off-ice incident – Connor Ungar, Max Wanner, Lynden Lakovic, and Marek Howell – have been suspended for the balance of the WHL Regular Season
Moose Jaw Warriors General Manager Jason Ripplinger and Head Coach Mark O’Leary have been suspended for five (5) WHL Regular Season games, effective immediately
The Moose Jaw Warriors Hockey Club has been fined $25,000

This is clearly something serious. As I said - I suspect that the wronged party doesn't want to push for a criminal charge but they did something really bad.

I suspect all four never play for the Warriors again.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819361 is a reply to message #819357 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 16:44

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 11:45

I am not a lawyer so hopefully someone knows the answer but is there a difference in how the police would call an incident if someone decided not to press charges vs some kids being idiots and doing something but didn't break the law?

When they say it wasn't criminal in nature, that to me means they were being immature teens and doing stupid things, probably broke a few WHL code of conduct rules but what they did isn't something you get charged for. But I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.

It is more serious than that. Here's the latest:

https://whl.ca/article/whl-announces-sanctions-for-moose-jaw -warriors

Quote:

Based on the findings of the investigation, the WHL has issued the following sanctions:

All four Moose Jaw Warriors players involved in the off-ice incident – Connor Ungar, Max Wanner, Lynden Lakovic, and Marek Howell – have been suspended for the balance of the WHL Regular Season
Moose Jaw Warriors General Manager Jason Ripplinger and Head Coach Mark O’Leary have been suspended for five (5) WHL Regular Season games, effective immediately
The Moose Jaw Warriors Hockey Club has been fined $25,000

This is clearly something serious. As I said - I suspect that the wronged party doesn't want to push for a criminal charge but they did something really bad.

I suspect all four never play for the Warriors again.

So they tell us the punishment and won't tell the crime. Wonder how the coach and GM were involved. Could it be a alcohol thing. A couple of over aged players supplying booze for the 16 year Olds. I wish there was some transparency on this. I can see how details might be scarce seeing as how two of the players involved are minors.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819363 is a reply to message #819361 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 16:53

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 16:44

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 11:45

I am not a lawyer so hopefully someone knows the answer but is there a difference in how the police would call an incident if someone decided not to press charges vs some kids being idiots and doing something but didn't break the law?

When they say it wasn't criminal in nature, that to me means they were being immature teens and doing stupid things, probably broke a few WHL code of conduct rules but what they did isn't something you get charged for. But I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.

It is more serious than that. Here's the latest:

https://whl.ca/article/whl-announces-sanctions-for-moose-jaw -warriors

Quote:

Based on the findings of the investigation, the WHL has issued the following sanctions:

All four Moose Jaw Warriors players involved in the off-ice incident – Connor Ungar, Max Wanner, Lynden Lakovic, and Marek Howell – have been suspended for the balance of the WHL Regular Season
Moose Jaw Warriors General Manager Jason Ripplinger and Head Coach Mark O’Leary have been suspended for five (5) WHL Regular Season games, effective immediately
The Moose Jaw Warriors Hockey Club has been fined $25,000

This is clearly something serious. As I said - I suspect that the wronged party doesn't want to push for a criminal charge but they did something really bad.

I suspect all four never play for the Warriors again.

So they tell us the punishment and won't tell the crime. Wonder how the coach and GM were involved. Could it be a alcohol thing. A couple of over aged players supplying booze for the 16 year Olds. I wish there was some transparency on this. I can see how details might be scarce seeing as how two of the players involved are minors.

Why would two police forces have been briefed and investigated the issue if it was just under-age drinking? I'd suggest it's a lot more serious.

The players know why they are getting punished, and chances are good it is in their best interests not to have it come out, so I don't anticipate any team or player sources leaking this.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819365 is a reply to message #819363 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 17:09

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 16:53

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 16:44

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 11:45

I am not a lawyer so hopefully someone knows the answer but is there a difference in how the police would call an incident if someone decided not to press charges vs some kids being idiots and doing something but didn't break the law?

When they say it wasn't criminal in nature, that to me means they were being immature teens and doing stupid things, probably broke a few WHL code of conduct rules but what they did isn't something you get charged for. But I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.

It is more serious than that. Here's the latest:

https://whl.ca/article/whl-announces-sanctions-for-moose-jaw -warriors

Quote:

Based on the findings of the investigation, the WHL has issued the following sanctions:

All four Moose Jaw Warriors players involved in the off-ice incident – Connor Ungar, Max Wanner, Lynden Lakovic, and Marek Howell – have been suspended for the balance of the WHL Regular Season
Moose Jaw Warriors General Manager Jason Ripplinger and Head Coach Mark O’Leary have been suspended for five (5) WHL Regular Season games, effective immediately
The Moose Jaw Warriors Hockey Club has been fined $25,000

This is clearly something serious. As I said - I suspect that the wronged party doesn't want to push for a criminal charge but they did something really bad.

I suspect all four never play for the Warriors again.

So they tell us the punishment and won't tell the crime. Wonder how the coach and GM were involved. Could it be a alcohol thing. A couple of over aged players supplying booze for the 16 year Olds. I wish there was some transparency on this. I can see how details might be scarce seeing as how two of the players involved are minors.

Why would two police forces have been briefed and investigated the issue if it was just under-age drinking? I'd suggest it's a lot more serious.

The players know why they are getting punished, and chances are good it is in their best interests not to have it come out, so I don't anticipate any team or player sources leaking this.

Who said it was two police forces? The original article just hinted at police involvement. I'm thinking what ever this is happened in Edmonton.

Also if the GM and Head Coach are getting punished too it suggests it was something they should have been aware of. I can't think of many senerios that fit to be honest.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 March 2023 17:14]

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819368 is a reply to message #819365 ]	Fri, 10 March 2023 20:13

CrusaderPi
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With underaged players? Any crime fits the bill. I don’t think they can release a minor’s name but since we already know everyone in the group they probably can’t release the crime or immoral act or ethical violation or breaking of the code of conduct.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819370 is a reply to message #819368 ]	Sat, 11 March 2023 01:47

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 20:13

With underaged players? Any crime fits the bill. I don’t think they can release a minor’s name but since we already know everyone in the group they probably can’t release the crime or immoral act or ethical violation or breaking of the code of conduct.

Which will do wonders to the CHL/ Hockey Canada's honesty campaign for sure! Makes you wonder why they didn't just wait until the police finished before doing anything to begin with in regards to this. Then no one would have known. Then again I'm not as super smart as those guys.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819377 is a reply to message #819370 ]	Sat, 11 March 2023 08:55

CrusaderPi
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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 11 March 2023 01:47

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 20:13

With underaged players? Any crime fits the bill. I don’t think they can release a minor’s name but since we already know everyone in the group they probably can’t release the crime or immoral act or ethical violation or breaking of the code of conduct.

Which will do wonders to the CHL/ Hockey Canada's honesty campaign for sure! Makes you wonder why they didn't just wait until the police finished before doing anything to begin with in regards to this. Then no one would have known. Then again I'm not as super smart as those guys.

In the rush to judgment era? No way. We don't have time to wait for frivolities like law now.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819384 is a reply to message #819377 ]	Sat, 11 March 2023 13:46

Skookum Jim
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 11 March 2023 07:55

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 11 March 2023 01:47

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 20:13

With underaged players? Any crime fits the bill. I don’t think they can release a minor’s name but since we already know everyone in the group they probably can’t release the crime or immoral act or ethical violation or breaking of the code of conduct.

Which will do wonders to the CHL/ Hockey Canada's honesty campaign for sure! Makes you wonder why they didn't just wait until the police finished before doing anything to begin with in regards to this. Then no one would have known. Then again I'm not as super smart as those guys.

In the rush to judgment era? No way. We don't have time to wait for frivolities like law now.

They should have saved police time and simply done a Twitter survey ..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819385 is a reply to message #819365 ]	Sat, 11 March 2023 13:51

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 17:09

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 16:53

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 16:44

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 11:45

I am not a lawyer so hopefully someone knows the answer but is there a difference in how the police would call an incident if someone decided not to press charges vs some kids being idiots and doing something but didn't break the law?

When they say it wasn't criminal in nature, that to me means they were being immature teens and doing stupid things, probably broke a few WHL code of conduct rules but what they did isn't something you get charged for. But I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.

It is more serious than that. Here's the latest:

https://whl.ca/article/whl-announces-sanctions-for-moose-jaw -warriors

Quote:

Based on the findings of the investigation, the WHL has issued the following sanctions:

All four Moose Jaw Warriors players involved in the off-ice incident – Connor Ungar, Max Wanner, Lynden Lakovic, and Marek Howell – have been suspended for the balance of the WHL Regular Season
Moose Jaw Warriors General Manager Jason Ripplinger and Head Coach Mark O’Leary have been suspended for five (5) WHL Regular Season games, effective immediately
The Moose Jaw Warriors Hockey Club has been fined $25,000

This is clearly something serious. As I said - I suspect that the wronged party doesn't want to push for a criminal charge but they did something really bad.

I suspect all four never play for the Warriors again.

So they tell us the punishment and won't tell the crime. Wonder how the coach and GM were involved. Could it be a alcohol thing. A couple of over aged players supplying booze for the 16 year Olds. I wish there was some transparency on this. I can see how details might be scarce seeing as how two of the players involved are minors.

Why would two police forces have been briefed and investigated the issue if it was just under-age drinking? I'd suggest it's a lot more serious.

The players know why they are getting punished, and chances are good it is in their best interests not to have it come out, so I don't anticipate any team or player sources leaking this.

Who said it was two police forces? The original article just hinted at police involvement. I'm thinking what ever this is happened in Edmonton.

Also if the GM and Head Coach are getting punished too it suggests it was something they should have been aware of. I can't think of many senerios that fit to be honest.

One of the articles said that the Moose Jaw RCMP said they were aware of the incident and that it was being investigated, but it was the Edmonton police who were doing the actual investigations. Moose Jaw was kept in the loop - presumably because if charges were placed, the RCMP would probably have been asked to do the arrests.

As for why the team and league took action ahead of time and afterwards? It's because these guys did something serious and if it comes out - which it may still - then it would look really bad on the team and the league for not acting. Junior hockey just can't take another black eye at this point, so they aren't messing around about this.

As I said before, the players could raise a stink if they felt they were being really mistreated here, but you haven't seen any of them say boo about this. That too speaks some volumes. They don't want whatever happened to come out either.

It would not shock me if there was some agreement struck, including some level of recompense, and a non-disclosure agreement.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819452 is a reply to message #819385 ]	Sat, 11 March 2023 23:22

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
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Adam wrote on Sat, 11 March 2023 13:51

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 17:09

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 16:53

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 16:44

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 10 March 2023 11:45

I am not a lawyer so hopefully someone knows the answer but is there a difference in how the police would call an incident if someone decided not to press charges vs some kids being idiots and doing something but didn't break the law?

When they say it wasn't criminal in nature, that to me means they were being immature teens and doing stupid things, probably broke a few WHL code of conduct rules but what they did isn't something you get charged for. But I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.

It is more serious than that. Here's the latest:

https://whl.ca/article/whl-announces-sanctions-for-moose-jaw -warriors

Quote:

Based on the findings of the investigation, the WHL has issued the following sanctions:

All four Moose Jaw Warriors players involved in the off-ice incident – Connor Ungar, Max Wanner, Lynden Lakovic, and Marek Howell – have been suspended for the balance of the WHL Regular Season
Moose Jaw Warriors General Manager Jason Ripplinger and Head Coach Mark O’Leary have been suspended for five (5) WHL Regular Season games, effective immediately
The Moose Jaw Warriors Hockey Club has been fined $25,000

This is clearly something serious. As I said - I suspect that the wronged party doesn't want to push for a criminal charge but they did something really bad.

I suspect all four never play for the Warriors again.

So they tell us the punishment and won't tell the crime. Wonder how the coach and GM were involved. Could it be a alcohol thing. A couple of over aged players supplying booze for the 16 year Olds. I wish there was some transparency on this. I can see how details might be scarce seeing as how two of the players involved are minors.

Why would two police forces have been briefed and investigated the issue if it was just under-age drinking? I'd suggest it's a lot more serious.

The players know why they are getting punished, and chances are good it is in their best interests not to have it come out, so I don't anticipate any team or player sources leaking this.

Who said it was two police forces? The original article just hinted at police involvement. I'm thinking what ever this is happened in Edmonton.

Also if the GM and Head Coach are getting punished too it suggests it was something they should have been aware of. I can't think of many senerios that fit to be honest.

One of the articles said that the Moose Jaw RCMP said they were aware of the incident and that it was being investigated, but it was the Edmonton police who were doing the actual investigations. Moose Jaw was kept in the loop - presumably because if charges were placed, the RCMP would probably have been asked to do the arrests.

As for why the team and league took action ahead of time and afterwards? It's because these guys did something serious and if it comes out - which it may still - then it would look really bad on the team and the league for not acting. Junior hockey just can't take another black eye at this point, so they aren't messing around about this.

As I said before, the players could raise a stink if they felt they were being really mistreated here, but you haven't seen any of them say boo about this. That too speaks some volumes. They don't want whatever happened to come out either.

It would not shock me if there was some agreement struck, including some level of recompense, and a non-disclosure agreement.

Im guessing your right Adam. I still don't know how the Gm and Coach come into play though. Puzzling to me. Nature abhors a vacuum. In absence of truth breeds conspiracy.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819458 is a reply to message #819452 ]	Sun, 12 March 2023 03:15

Adam
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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 11 March 2023 23:22

Im guessing your right Adam. I still don't know how the Gm and Coach come into play though. Puzzling to me. Nature abhors a vacuum. In absence of truth breeds conspiracy.

They're just petrified that this gets out and that they're accused of under-playing the seriousness - so they come down hard on everyone and they can say now that they took it really seriously and even though it wasn't criminal they made sure that a statement was made. They'll say that ultimately, the coach and GM are responsible for taking care of the kids on the road, and allowing them to get in to whatever the situation they got in to was, was a dereliction of duty, especially considering two of the players were underage.

Ultimately, it barely hurts those two guys and probably isn't a big difference maker on their playoff chances - not compared to losing those players, that's for sure. I don't even know what a suspension means for the GM. He has to watch the game at home? From his office? That one is pretty meaningless.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819461 is a reply to message #819458 ]	Sun, 12 March 2023 09:04

AndersonRules
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Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

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I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think the details should come out. It would be different if there were criminal charges. As it stands, there are two possible scenarios. (A) Adam's thesis - their actions were criminal in nature, but the victim(s) decided not to press charges for whatever reason (fear, NDA, etc.). (B) Their actions were not criminal in nature, but were excessively idiotic in nature (supply your own imaginative account - getting pissed drunk and yelling insulting obscenities at every passing guest in their hotel, whatever ...)

In either case, I don't think the public needs or deserves to hear the details. Yes, my own morbid curiosity means I'd like to know - but that doesn't mean that I deserve to know, nor does it mean that I or the world would be better off knowing.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819464 is a reply to message #819458 ]	Sun, 12 March 2023 13:01

CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 03:15

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 11 March 2023 23:22

Im guessing your right Adam. I still don't know how the Gm and Coach come into play though. Puzzling to me. Nature abhors a vacuum. In absence of truth breeds conspiracy.

They're just petrified that this gets out and that they're accused of under-playing the seriousness - so they come down hard on everyone and they can say now that they took it really seriously and even though it wasn't criminal they made sure that a statement was made. They'll say that ultimately, the coach and GM are responsible for taking care of the kids on the road, and allowing them to get in to whatever the situation they got in to was, was a dereliction of duty, especially considering two of the players were underage.

No kidding. I wonder why they'd be so afraid?

Quote:

Ultimately, it barely hurts those two guys and probably isn't a big difference maker on their playoff chances - not compared to losing those players, that's for sure. I don't even know what a suspension means for the GM. He has to watch the game at home? From his office? That one is pretty meaningless.

These things have a way of lingering. People and organizations are prone to fear now and over reactions ripple. Hopefully when everyone says they're sorry, the public believes their sorry enough.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819467 is a reply to message #819464 ]	Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

Adam
Messages: 7156
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 13:01

Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 03:15

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sat, 11 March 2023 23:22

Im guessing your right Adam. I still don't know how the Gm and Coach come into play though. Puzzling to me. Nature abhors a vacuum. In absence of truth breeds conspiracy.

They're just petrified that this gets out and that they're accused of under-playing the seriousness - so they come down hard on everyone and they can say now that they took it really seriously and even though it wasn't criminal they made sure that a statement was made. They'll say that ultimately, the coach and GM are responsible for taking care of the kids on the road, and allowing them to get in to whatever the situation they got in to was, was a dereliction of duty, especially considering two of the players were underage.

No kidding. I wonder why they'd be so afraid?

Quote:

Ultimately, it barely hurts those two guys and probably isn't a big difference maker on their playoff chances - not compared to losing those players, that's for sure. I don't even know what a suspension means for the GM. He has to watch the game at home? From his office? That one is pretty meaningless.

These things have a way of lingering. People and organizations are prone to fear now and over reactions ripple. Hopefully when everyone says they're sorry, the public believes their sorry enough.

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819469 is a reply to message #819467 ]	Sun, 12 March 2023 15:18

CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

Strong disagree. It speaks to how worried the organization is about the backlash. That is no longer correlated with the action. No one complains about people being screwed now, except lone voices on ignored corners of the internet, lest the fear that motivates an organization land on them.

Vigilante justice usually works like this.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819471 is a reply to message #819469 ]	Sun, 12 March 2023 15:26

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 15:18

Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

Strong disagree. It speaks to how worried the organization is about the backlash. That is no longer correlated with the action. No one complains about people being screwed now, except lone voices on ignored corners of the internet, lest the fear that motivates an organization land on them.

Vigilante justice usually works like this.

Agree Pi. Look at that High School kid that got thrown out of class for the rest of the year, arrested and charged for saying there are only two genders ( which is a scientific fact). No one cares about anyone being wronged unless you belong to certain special interest group now a days.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 March 2023 15:32]

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819493 is a reply to message #819471 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 11:07

Perkele
Messages: 222
Registered: July 2006
Location: St. Catharines

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Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 17:26

... there are only two genders ( which is a scientific fact)...

I don't want to get this thread off topic but the scientist in me can't let this slide. This statement is 100% wrong. If Baba (or anyone else) wants to take this topic to the OT I will join that thread and we can discuss it there but as a quick note, science doesn't even think there are only two sexes. Anyhow, if there are more than two possible sexes, it is obvious that there are more than two possible genders.

Here is a good article to read if you still have questions
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the -idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

#teamBath(i)robe

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819573 is a reply to message #819493 ]	Wed, 15 March 2023 02:29

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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Perkele wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 11:07

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 17:26

... there are only two genders ( which is a scientific fact)...

I don't want to get this thread off topic but the scientist in me can't let this slide. This statement is 100% wrong. If Baba (or anyone else) wants to take this topic to the OT I will join that thread and we can discuss it there but as a quick note, science doesn't even think there are only two sexes. Anyhow, if there are more than two possible sexes, it is obvious that there are more than two possible genders.

Here is a good article to read if you still have questions
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the -idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

It comes down to Chromosomes. Your either XX or XY. That's it. A new born child is a blank slate. Everything else is based on social conditioning and life experience. Til a XY gives live birth you wont change my mind. Also not a blanket statement but judging by the drug use/suicide rates in such demographics suggests a fair degree of mental illness plays into it as well.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 March 2023 02:31]

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819584 is a reply to message #819573 ]	Wed, 15 March 2023 18:55

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Carson Briere should be banned from hockey. Any teammates with him should be kicked off the team. The head coach of the team should be suspended (or fired) as should the GM. Dan Briere should step down as Flyers interim GM.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819484 is a reply to message #819469 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 00:23

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 15:18

Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

Strong disagree. It speaks to how worried the organization is about the backlash. That is no longer correlated with the action. No one complains about people being screwed now, except lone voices on ignored corners of the internet, lest the fear that motivates an organization land on them.

Vigilante justice usually works like this.

This isn't vigilante justice. The players did something. They got caught or reported. They accepted a significant punishment. At any point if they feel they've been wronged, they all have a voice and people would be interested to hear what happened, but none have said anything. The coach and GM have also said nothing.

The law isn't the only justice consequence out there for people's actions. People probably should know that.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819485 is a reply to message #819484 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 00:28

CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 00:23

CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 15:18

Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

Strong disagree. It speaks to how worried the organization is about the backlash. That is no longer correlated with the action. No one complains about people being screwed now, except lone voices on ignored corners of the internet, lest the fear that motivates an organization land on them.

Vigilante justice usually works like this.

This isn't vigilante justice. The players did something. They got caught or reported. They accepted a significant punishment. At any point if they feel they've been wronged, they all have a voice and people would be interested to hear what happened, but none have said anything. The coach and GM have also said nothing.

The law isn't the only justice consequence out there for people's actions. People probably should know that.

vig·i·lan·te
noun
a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

It is the literal definition of vigilante justice.

It is telling that you choose not to understand that and you think silence is a sign of guilt. The mob does usually think they're entitled to act as they do.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819486 is a reply to message #819485 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 01:31

Adam
Messages: 7156
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 00:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 00:23

CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 15:18

Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

Strong disagree. It speaks to how worried the organization is about the backlash. That is no longer correlated with the action. No one complains about people being screwed now, except lone voices on ignored corners of the internet, lest the fear that motivates an organization land on them.

Vigilante justice usually works like this.

This isn't vigilante justice. The players did something. They got caught or reported. They accepted a significant punishment. At any point if they feel they've been wronged, they all have a voice and people would be interested to hear what happened, but none have said anything. The coach and GM have also said nothing.

The law isn't the only justice consequence out there for people's actions. People probably should know that.

vig·i·lan·te
noun
a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

It is the literal definition of vigilante justice.

It is telling that you choose not to understand that and you think silence is a sign of guilt. The mob does usually think they're entitled to act as they do.

You seem to believe that someone has only done wrong if the police charge them with a crime and they’re convicted. That’s obviously not the case though. There’s a million examples we can use. Your employer can fire you for anything they believe brings their company in to disrepute. If you’re lucky they’ll say it is without cause and they’ll severance you, but depending on what you did and what your employment contract allows the employer to do or prohibits you from doing, you might not even get that.

Hell, in hockey there’s a couple guys who are non-cops who are constantly handing out punishments without even a chance for appeal most of the time.

One’s actions can always have consequences even if your actions are deemed not to be criminal.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819487 is a reply to message #819486 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 08:28

CrusaderPi
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 01:31

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 00:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 00:23

CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 15:18

Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

Strong disagree. It speaks to how worried the organization is about the backlash. That is no longer correlated with the action. No one complains about people being screwed now, except lone voices on ignored corners of the internet, lest the fear that motivates an organization land on them.

Vigilante justice usually works like this.

This isn't vigilante justice. The players did something. They got caught or reported. They accepted a significant punishment. At any point if they feel they've been wronged, they all have a voice and people would be interested to hear what happened, but none have said anything. The coach and GM have also said nothing.

The law isn't the only justice consequence out there for people's actions. People probably should know that.

vig·i·lan·te
noun
a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

It is the literal definition of vigilante justice.

It is telling that you choose not to understand that and you think silence is a sign of guilt. The mob does usually think they're entitled to act as they do.

You seem to believe that someone has only done wrong if the police charge them with a crime and they’re convicted. That’s obviously not the case though. There’s a million examples we can use. Your employer can fire you for anything they believe brings their company in to disrepute. If you’re lucky they’ll say it is without cause and they’ll severance you, but depending on what you did and what your employment contract allows the employer to do or prohibits you from doing, you might not even get that.

Hell, in hockey there’s a couple guys who are non-cops who are constantly handing out punishments without even a chance for appeal most of the time.

One’s actions can always have consequences even if your actions are deemed not to be criminal.

I don't think suspensions should be handed out preemptively because a group of people are carrying pitchforks around the internet. I don't think people should be punished because of an accusation. I don't think people should be punished because of an investigation. And I certainly don't think people should be punished because they choose to keep their mouths shut.

I am well aware actions have consequences, but that's not what this happening here and that's not what we've seen in the (hockey) world for the last number of years. In this case, and many others like it, action and reaction have been decoupled because of the moralizing mob. You're right though, people can be fired because of actions that happen outside of work. I'm honestly surprised the coach and GM are only being fired here because actions have consequences. Something not even one's own actions, but we all have to be ok with it. Lest the mob notice us.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819494 is a reply to message #819487 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 11:17

Adam
Messages: 7156
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 08:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 01:31

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 00:28

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 00:23

CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 15:18

Adam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2023 14:16

It speaks to whatever happened. It isn't likely something minor or trivial. If it was, someone would complain about the unfairness of it all...

It'll be interesting to see how far it follows these players. The goalie is at the end of his junior career and undrafted. Likely the end of the road for him anyhow. Wanner signed a deal with the Oilers though. I wonder where he ends up. The Oilers are about the least concerned organization with reputations though so we'll see.

Strong disagree. It speaks to how worried the organization is about the backlash. That is no longer correlated with the action. No one complains about people being screwed now, except lone voices on ignored corners of the internet, lest the fear that motivates an organization land on them.

Vigilante justice usually works like this.

This isn't vigilante justice. The players did something. They got caught or reported. They accepted a significant punishment. At any point if they feel they've been wronged, they all have a voice and people would be interested to hear what happened, but none have said anything. The coach and GM have also said nothing.

The law isn't the only justice consequence out there for people's actions. People probably should know that.

vig·i·lan·te
noun
a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

It is the literal definition of vigilante justice.

It is telling that you choose not to understand that and you think silence is a sign of guilt. The mob does usually think they're entitled to act as they do.

You seem to believe that someone has only done wrong if the police charge them with a crime and they’re convicted. That’s obviously not the case though. There’s a million examples we can use. Your employer can fire you for anything they believe brings their company in to disrepute. If you’re lucky they’ll say it is without cause and they’ll severance you, but depending on what you did and what your employment contract allows the employer to do or prohibits you from doing, you might not even get that.

Hell, in hockey there’s a couple guys who are non-cops who are constantly handing out punishments without even a chance for appeal most of the time.

One’s actions can always have consequences even if your actions are deemed not to be criminal.

I don't think suspensions should be handed out preemptively because a group of people are carrying pitchforks around the internet. I don't think people should be punished because of an accusation. I don't think people should be punished because of an investigation. And I certainly don't think people should be punished because they choose to keep their mouths shut.

I am well aware actions have consequences, but that's not what this happening here and that's not what we've seen in the (hockey) world for the last number of years. In this case, and many others like it, action and reaction have been decoupled because of the moralizing mob. You're right though, people can be fired because of actions that happen outside of work. I'm honestly surprised the coach and GM are only being fired here because actions have consequences. Something not even one's own actions, but we all have to be ok with it. Lest the mob notice us.

Coach and GM didn't get fired, they got a slap on the wrist.

The team did investigate - they were about 10 days from the incident to their decision to suspend the players. They waited for the police's conclusion to finalize how long that suspension was.

That's not actually uncommon. If something happens that could be disruptive to a workplace, you might find yourself suspended pending the results of an investigation. Typically you'd be on leave with pay for that period. Then they can decide what to do based on whatever they learn, and they don't need you to be charged with a crime to decide to discipline or dismiss you.

Don't do crappy things is probably a good decision, because not only can it potentially have legal consequences but it can cost you opportunities to advance professionally or socially too. I don't think that's anything new or 'woke'. That's just the reality. It's always been that way.

Let's take as an example, Gary Hart. He was the leading contender to be the Democratic nominee for President in 1988. He was caught having an affair and it crushed his campaign and ended his political career. Now, it's not illegal to have an affair. It doesn't impact most people at all who he was sleeping with. The police never even investigated him - but actions still have consequences.

There's a million more examples. The neo-nazis that marched in that tiki torch rally are another good example. Most of them who were identified were let go by their companies, who shockingly don't want to be associated with nazis. They weren't breaking the law by marching around saying nazi slogans and such, but they were showing that they were of poor character, and a potential embarrassment to an employer, so the get shown the door.

That's not vigilantism, that's protecting the brand and it's nothing new and nothing surprising.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819495 is a reply to message #819494 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 11:43

CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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It is new, but it's not surprising. I agree the tiki torch people are a perfect example. You know there are still people who haven't bothered to read the President's full quote. Hell, some people have read it and still haven't bothered to consider a change of opinion. But you have to be on the right side of what allowed now and god forbid you step out of line, right? Screw anyone that doesn't. They had it coming for not being establishment enough for not being inclusive.

I'm not asking if everyone in the Moose Jaw case should be punished. I'm asking if the punishment was delivered because the organization feared the mob. My perspective, from here and elsewhere, is that the punishment is delivered because there's a rush to get on the right side of the issue out of fear of the mob.

I know you and I will never agree on this stuff.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819498 is a reply to message #819494 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 14:02

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
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Gary Hart is indeed a fascinating example ... because not too long afterward you had a Democratic president who had multiple affairs and it didn't seem to negatively affect his standing or electability ... followed more recently by a Republican president with similar 'shenanigans'. Why was Hart crushed while Clinton survived and even thrived? That has at least something to do with mob mentality (or lack thereof) and (un)willingness to prosecute in the court of public opinion.

Tiki mob is one thing ... but note the utter lack of consequences for individuals involved in burning vehicles, looting stores, etc. during the 2020 BLM riots. That behavior seems (at least to most people) pretty reprehensible, not to mention illegal - but there is neither legal prosecution nor popular prosecution. Why? Because 'the cause' was in closer sync with the spirit of the age. I think that is Pi's point (though I could be wrong) - and on that, I tend to agree with him. If you're on the 'right' side of contemporary wokeness, you have very little to fear from mob mentality or prosecution in the court of public opinion; whereas if you're on the 'wrong' side, you have a great deal to fear - even if the outward actions of the former are debatably as inflammatory or illegal than those of the latter.

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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819499 is a reply to message #819498 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 16:04

Adam
Messages: 7156
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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AndersonRules wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 14:02

Gary Hart is indeed a fascinating example ... because not too long afterward you had a Democratic president who had multiple affairs and it didn't seem to negatively affect his standing or electability ... followed more recently by a Republican president with similar 'shenanigans'. Why was Hart crushed while Clinton survived and even thrived? That has at least something to do with mob mentality (or lack thereof) and (un)willingness to prosecute in the court of public opinion.

Tiki mob is one thing ... but note the utter lack of consequences for individuals involved in burning vehicles, looting stores, etc. during the 2020 BLM riots. That behavior seems (at least to most people) pretty reprehensible, not to mention illegal - but there is neither legal prosecution nor popular prosecution. Why? Because 'the cause' was in closer sync with the spirit of the age. I think that is Pi's point (though I could be wrong) - and on that, I tend to agree with him. If you're on the 'right' side of contemporary wokeness, you have very little to fear from mob mentality or prosecution in the court of public opinion; whereas if you're on the 'wrong' side, you have a great deal to fear - even if the outward actions of the former are debatably as inflammatory or illegal than those of the latter.

I just don't believe that there's a bunch of people out there who've been identified as having burnt cars who haven't received consequences.

And is this Moose Jaw case "woke"? How exactly?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers prospect Max Wanner Suspended by WHL [message #819500 is a reply to message #819499 ]	Mon, 13 March 2023 16:17

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7785
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Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2023 16:04

I just don't believe that there's a bunch of people out there who've been identified as having burnt cars who haven't received consequences.

You'd be surprised.

Quote:

And is this Moose Jaw case "woke"? How exactly?

Woke isn't exactly the right word but it's become something of a catchall lately so it's close enough. This is the rush to judgement and action to appease the mob who has to know that their justice has been meted out. The kids have been punished. The adults have been punished. The coach and GM have been punished. Because you need to know the Moose Jaw Warriors hockey organization takes whatever happened very seriously. Whether or not the punishments warranted for the action is entirely immaterial so long as you know about them.

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